Legal music for podcasters. Why be “podsafe”?
Published by on March 9th, 2005
There is plenty of “podsafe” music out there, yet many, perhaps the majority, of podcasters still illegally use music in their podcasts without paying the appropriate license fees.
It is expensive, yes, but surely like everything else in life, if you cannot afford it, do you have the right to use it?
This issue is currently buzzing within the ‘podsphere’, Even with the growing availability of music which does not fall under the domains of the licensing authorities, such as RIAA, ASCAP and Sound Exchange, the amateur, almost underground nature of podcasting has created an attitude admittedly less of defiance and more of selective ignorance. Many of the podcasts I listen to use licensed music illegally, which to be honest makes me a little uncomfortable.
What’s the harm?
With the current state of podcasting, there truly is little harm to the music industry, there’s no doubt about that. However, as a creative myself who has experienced work being exploited without my permission and without compensation, I can play the devil’s advocate. Music is somebody’s - usually several somebodys’ - creation, and they have a right to royalties if anyone wishes to use that creation for broadcast. Podcasters for the most part may not be profiting financially from the use of the music, but they are most certainly promoting themselves and their products on the back of another’s creative efforts, thus ultimately leading to an improved product as a result.
In my podcasts I do and will continue to, use ‘podsafe’ music not because I fear legal action at some point - podcasting will be immense by the time the music industry gets it’s legal leviathan moving - but because I truly believe in the need for retention and controlled use of copyrighted material.
Radio stations may also want a say in this. If podcasting realises the potential it is currently promising, it will almost certainly have some impact on overall station listening figures. The way for radio to handle podcasting is, of course, to do what Virgin have now done and released some shows in a downloadable podcast format. However, I can imagine broadcasters being a little more aggressive, particularly in the USA where radio stations are much more aligned to music genre. They will be directly competing with musical podcasts within the same genre and they will certainly be unhappy about listeners moving away to shows created with illegitimate music content.
I think we can expect some high profile law suits sometime down the road - individual, prominent podcasters being made an example of in the hope it will frighten many others into legalising their music content one way or another.
There is a great opportunity here for the music licensing organisations, however. If they embrace this new form of media broadcasting and create affordable and workable licensing solutions for your average, amateur, non-profit podcaster, than amateur podcasting could have a great future and be a not insignificant revenue earner for the licensees.
I hope to cover a little more on this in my next podcast, due out on Sunday.
Addendum: Create Digital Music has an interesting article on licensing via ASCAP - it just might be affordable, but ASCAP is not the end of it. ASCAP’s Podcast Fees Nominal; Legal Licensing Still Complex.
19 Responses to “Legal music for podcasters. Why be “podsafe”?”
and if no one was to use commerical music illegally would there be no demand for an affordable license?
I see it the use of commercial music illegally as a protest to force the music industry to produce an affordable license for podcaster to give them the choice. At present there is no choice - its podsafe or nothing!
Are we not also promoting the the artistes and their music also ? I say in my show - if you liek the tune - go out and buy it. I do not play the full track and I talk over it to make it useless for anyone wishing to record it seperately.
I agree with you in principle. In practise - many enjoy familar tunes.
Each to their own.
I have nothing against any individual who chooses to use licensed music, let’s get that said first, nothing personal here - as you say, each to their own.
Admittedly it’s frustrating that there’s as yet no low-end licensing option for non-profit users, but hey, this podcasting thing is in its infancy, give them a chance to get the corporate wheels in motion.
The one question I have is: Would someone who doesn’t use podsafe music delve into my creative portfolio and use one of my graphics or images to help promote their website without my permission? I doubt most would. The only way I can pay the rent is sell my skills and if someone wants them, they have to pay - otherwise ultimately, I’m on the streets ( a little melodramatic perhaps, but fundamentally accurate). Most members of the population accept this attitude with the visual arts. Music, on the other hand, because it is so much more in the public space, seems to generate a completely different mindset.
Saying we are promoting the music is a flawed argument as surely it’s the smaller, indie music that needs the air time much more than classic songs from bygone years everyone knows already. With more and more fully commercial broadcasters looking at podcasting (Virgin and now the BBC talking about it), us lot will have some stiff competition to come and perhaps there will be a two tier world of commercial and ‘underground’ podcasters Underground podcasts will undoubtedly be enhanced with the use of indie music of whatever genre, as it will appeal to that audience group.
But let’s put it in perspective - using licensed music right now for amateur podcasting is no worse than doing 85 down the motorway - it really isn’t a big deal. Personally I’d love to play more recognisable music - music I love and share with others - but as a creative professional, I would be wholly hypocritical in using someone else’s copyright for my own ends. I cannot separate my principles from my practice, again that arises from my professional activities, and since I have a number of potential commercial uses for podcasting in embryonic states right now, I want to be sure to retain some professional credibility from the off.
With ASCAP now initially suggesting there might be a $20/year fee for amateur podcasters, we may all end up very happy very soon!
Thanks for your comments. Don’t worry, I’ll be still tuning in to your show now and then - wish I had the time to listen to all podcasts each day, but that’s what I get for having demanding clients
My arguements I am sure are flawed. I am also a creative professional and have my ideas and work pinched all the time - in the TV industry it is rife - only we aren’t allowed to say it - or just get on with life and come up with other projects.
How much difference is there in playing a piece of music to subscribers to a podcast and playing the same music to a group of friends at home at a party or other form of gathering? Neither is for profit. Personally I think it is far worse to play the ‘mash up’ recordings and comedy versions of songs where copyright for the lyrics and emphsis on the song has been brutally changed from the orginal with out the owners permission.
If I felt I was harming the artiste, writers and musicians by playing their work within my podcast, I wouldn’t do it. If I were making a profit from it, I wouldn’t do it.
Just as a village hall is required to have a license to play commercial music at parties and discos, I believe a podcaster should also. If there is one as cheap as you suggest, then it is certainly something I would buy.
We break the rules sometimes to move forward.
Poodcasting is new, true. Mp3 files and audio via download from the internet is not new. Two to three years ago I was involved in am internet radio station - before podcasting was off the ground.
My show is a daily show. Dip in and out as and when you wish, there is no need to apologise for missing any shows. Some shows are better than others.
Just because something is widespread and common, doesn’t automatically mean it is right - IMHO. Forcing commerce to act due to global non-compliance is not something that sits comfortably with me - someone loses out one way or another and business will wake up to commercial opportunity given room to maneuver. Too much negative pressure could easily generate undesired policies. I do not agree that this underground pressure will be the motivation swinging big business into action - though many will claim victory when it comes, regardless of the reality of how that ‘victory’ was achieved. There’s an impatience created by the internet, and it takes time to get business wheels in motion. A revolutionary intent is one thing, but this smacks more of simple impatience.
Thinking about it, it would be a nightmare to source podsafe music for daily shows… how on earth do you find the time ?! Pretty soon this subject will be moot, but it’s good to have such discussions openly. I’m prepping for Minor Technicality podcast episode 2 right now, hope you’ll get the chance to tune in.
Sure - its great to discuss this openly.
I am looking forward to your show.
Hi,
I’m fairly new on the podcasting scene, and I’d like to find music for my increasingly music based podcast. I’m interested in finding “podsafe” music from new and independant artists that I may legally play on my show. Do you know of any good resources that may help me on my search? Your help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Kit
Hi Kit,
Start with http://www.magnatune.com. I emailed them and it seems all of their songs are released to podcasters under the Creative Commons license. The only disadvantage is you have to stream the tunes from their site - which is no biggie really. There’s some dribble of course, but most of the material is useable depending on your required genre, and there really are a few gems in there.
I also came across mixposure.com. More amateur and a greater percentage of dribble, but some reasonable stuff in there if you rummage around a bit. These are a little more vague on the actual distribution and usage license, but looks like all the artists are different as some offer download of files and others just streaming.
I’ll check out your podcast later!
I may as well chime in, seeing the flurry of good discussion here, as I have a brief and perhaps simple addition/underscore to make.
Using music for the purposes of enhancing a podcast’s impact and professional appearance requires that someone is compensated for their efforts in producing that additional content. One must ask, “would my show be better or worse without the music?” If the answer is that the broadcast, (which by definition is “To send a message to all possible recipients”), is made better or more pleasurable to listen to than if that creative content were removed, then you have to give someone credit/compensation as directed by their licensing agreements. For example, though richer than God, Madonna would never allow radio or tv stations to broadcast her songs/videos for free. Never. (That’s how she got richer than God.) Smaller artists/bands/other creatives cannot hope to achieve success, (even if that success isn’t measured monetarily), without this structure of credit/compensation in place and adhered to.
Read how much these people actually take home in profit and it’s appalling. If it weren’t for the “gifts” and promotional houses, cars and clothes that are loaned or gifted by record companies, these artists would be making the wages of your average fast food employee. They sell their souls, (by their choice), to the devil- the least we can do is throw coins in their guitar cases if we enjoy/use what they do.
Content is content. If you can’t make it all on your own, (everything is created by someone), then find a way to legally give credit where it’s due. Respect the artists and their licensing or get off your butt and make your own content. (If it’s good enough, maybe one day it’ll be stolen too…
)
That’s my (less brief than I thought) opinion as a creative professional who used to work in the music industry as a promotional professional.
Great discussion, thanks for letting me add my two cents.
~jEN
I repeat - give me the license I can afford and I will contriubute to the artists.
Podsafe music - give me a way I can obtain this music easily and of similar quality.
Richard Vobes
http://www.vobes.com
My fave for original music and freaky geeky crap is Mondays…What Sunday Threw Up! mondays.pwop.com/. One of the first and best sounding shows!
Mondays… What?!?! A two-hour show!! Geez… I don’t have two hours of time available to me to listen to that much stuff. I really should delete the blatant plugging for no reason as it’s hardly a comment partaking of the discussion here, but maybe I’ll just return the favour…?
Hi, Im reletivly new to podcasting, still getting set up and I have a question;
If I only play MOST of the song, not all, and then say like, ” And that was a segment of Paul Mcartny’s Let it Be, and if you liked it go on to itunes and buy it” would that be acceptable?
I believe there is a safe limit for playing, but it’s something like a minute (might be as low as 20 seconds). Playing most of it and then presenting a little sales pitch would not be acceptable to the licensing authorities. It’s not that you might be doing the artist our of a sale at some point, it’s down to the fact that you are improving the quality of your programme on the back of someone else’s work.
There has been some mention that the Apple iTunes podcast directory will not accept podcasts which illegally play licenced music, so this might become a bigger issue for some podcasters wanting to get into the directory.
I accept everything i’ve read in this thread about licensing and limitations of non-indie songs, but what I don’t understand is how it’s okay to mashup huge chunks of songs (sometimes 50%!) and consider it “PodSafe”. If we can include less than a minute of a song, then how can PodCasters get away with playing mashups which include riffs, beats, choruses, drum beats–all the recognizable bits of songs!
Or are mashups completely pod-unsafe and I just haven’t heard anyone admit it yet?
cheers,
Kevin
From what I know about licensing, and I’m no expert, just an interested party, mashups are certainly not ‘podsafe’ without appropriate license payments. They generally use significantly substancial parts of other works, in most cases far more than ‘traditional’ sampling, which itself has led to numerous copyright cases in the past. I can’t see how mashups can be legitimate, particulerly when they often rely on the recognisability of the various song segments they use. It’s a case that their popularity has grown faster then the music industry leviathan can react… just a matter of time.
As a response to jEN:
I’m not sure you actually understand how any band actually makes it big. They beg people to listen at first. They beg people to exploit them just so that they can print a CD. They beg promoters and clubs for gigs. They don’t get paid crap for their content. They beg radio stations for air time, even dead in the middle of the night.
Over time, they produce enough buzz, interest, CD sales, ticket sales, that they now have a product that they can sell. At that point they begin to control their product. Until then it’s a pain in the ass to get permission from every tiny band to play their music. I don’t know if you’ve tried doing it or not, but 1 out of 3 messages to a group will result in a response from someone. 1 out of 3 will have emails bounce and the other third don’t even know what email is, but someone set up a mail account for them on their website. Not that I’m not doing it, but it makes things harder.
Actually Dan, I understand more than you know. After having spent a considerable time as District Artist covering visual promotions for 14 stores between Cleveland and Pittsburgh, the games record companies play with their artists wasn’t hidden from me. At that same time in my life I watched one of the most talented unsigned bands rise and fall because of how tough it is to make it- they were great, friends of mine, and I still sing their tunes in my head 10 years later.
I appreciate your opinion and rundown, (and please don’t misinterpret my tone as being defensive because I’m really not and think healthy conversation is wonderful
), but I do have some experience based insight.
Sure, it’s tough to obtain the permission of every band. To be fair to the bands though, how can a band be certain they’re getting played without feedback or permission seeking? How do they know they’re heading in a positive direction? Some creatives would love the underreported exposure, but I’ll bet if asked, all of them would rather have had contact with the podcaster prior to their tunes going out on a show they didn’t solicit. Maybe the artist would still give a hearty thumbs up to the request, but people are different and if the podcast doesn’t seem to align it’s own message with what the band may be putting out there- it could end up damaging the budding career. For example, could you see System of a Down being played on Rush Limbaugh’s show? A ridiculous example, I know, but illustrative.
Finding out how to contact a band or successfully contacting a band is tricky. I don’t have an answer on how to magically get through the sea of bad emails or how to get a response from the ones that do get through. However, respect the artist by not stealing content. It’s like a really nice item in a shop window: the store never seems open, so you smash the glass and take the item anyway… It’s not right. Even if the intention is noble to get the band played, perhaps the image the band wants is best left decided by the band themselves. It’s their career, not yours to apply well-intentioned guesswork to.
Great conversation! Cheers!
jEN
TY for explaining “podsafe music”. I was beginning to feel as if I had fallen out of the naive tree on that one cause i thought it had to do with language, subverting youth, etc.
I do have a question though. I used to dj on an fm station. True, it was a college station, but it had a wide range, little competion (in terms of reception), and avid listeners. I know that I turned people on to music which they never would have heard before. Other musical sources, from radio to soundtracks to podcasts have done the same for me. Commercial radio is so tightly controlled that one would have to flood the building with gas and take over to get something new played, so I am grateful for the exposure. And yes, I have purchased music I have heard.
I understand you wish to be compensated, no freebies, no matter what. I don’t even know what your(I assume) music is. However, would you be open to working out an agreement that, if the podcaster profits from a podcast where your music has been used, you would get a percentage? Of course, no podcast would be THE PODCAST OF PODCASTS, where one could point to one single show as the one which drew all the side ads and recognition. However, your creative input was a part of at least one podcast, and should be compensated. What are your thoughts on this?
On the other hand, a podcast, in part using your creative input, might atract no sponsors whatsoever. It might be too “out there” for the commercial world to align itself with. However, as we all know, by the time the commercial world is aware of it, creative content has been kicking around for at least a year or more, gathering an audience through exposure. Everyone can name music which only played on offhours college staion shows, which later gained an audience by being included on a movie soundtrack. Would you be willing to license your properly credited creative content, using the same general agreement guidelines stated above, to a site which may not get commercial sponsorship, knowing that you are getting exposure which would otherwise not happen?
I wouldn never disrespect someone by using their music when they have voiced their objections; that’s just rude and there is entirely too much of that about. However, it does seem as if there may be something to be gained on both sides, if both parties communicate. What do you think?
>> if the podcaster profits from a podcast where your music has been used, you would get a percentage?
Logistically unmanageable I feel. Imagine having to sign agreements with every podcaster who wants to play your music and invest trust that the podcaster is up front about what they are earning from a podcast. Of course, it would be all between individual podcasters and music creators I suppose.
>> Would you be willing to license your properly credited creative content, using the same general agreement guidelines stated above, to a site which may not get commercial sponsorship, knowing that you are getting exposure which would otherwise not happen?
Creative Commons licensing solutions cover all kinds of situations like these. They state the accepted usage or re-use of a work or content. I could imagine a composer/writer/band releasing some tracks out there for general use but keeping others under control.
There is one additional spanner to all this if you are talking about material which has been released in the public domain in some way. Imagine an unsigned band spreading their work out there as much as possible, then gaining a management deal. Does that work already out there fall under that management deal and therefore is no longer officially usable as license-free content..?
It’s a complex subject and even if a band makes an agreement with a podcaster directly, who knows what’s around the corner.